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    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Backup
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    • F Offline
      flakpyro @olivierlambert
      last edited by

      @olivierlambert Unfortunately after updating to 5.100.2 (XOA and Proxies) i am still running into XOA backups falling back to full after preforming a VM migration between two hosts within a pool when snapshot deletion is enabled. This doesnt happen if the snapshot is retained.

      My test setup:
      Servers: 2 x HP DL325 Gen 10 AMD Epyc Servers
      Storage: TrueNAS Mini R running TrueNAS Scale 24.10 serving an NFS SR shared between both servers.
      All VMs running on the same shared SR on the TrueNAS.

      Scenario:
      VM 1 Migrated from Host A to Host B
      VM 2 Migrated from Host B to Host A

      Running a CBT with Snapshot delete backup after migration the VM between hosts while they remain on the same shared SR results in the error:

      "Can't do delta with this vdi, transfer will be a full"
      "Can't do delta, will try to get a full stream"

      Full log and screenshot of the error:
      2024-11-14T19_20_40.383Z - backup NG.json.txt

      Screenshot_20241114_132811.png

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      • olivierlambertO Offline
        olivierlambert Vates 🪐 Co-Founder CEO
        last edited by

        Sadly you are the only one we know we this problem that we cannot reproduce 😢

        I suppose we already checked that the VDI UUID doesn't change after the migration right?

        F 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • F Offline
          flakpyro @olivierlambert
          last edited by flakpyro

          @olivierlambert Yeah we did confirm the UUID does not change. These are VMs that were imported from VMware using the XOA wizard if that makes any difference.

          The only other pool i have i could try on would be our production pool which is using CBT but is not removing the snapshot.

          However if i migrate a VM between hosts on that pool and run a backup job i see this on the pool masters SMLog

          Nov 14 21:06:50 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3980818] Size of bitmap: 491520
Nov 14 21:06:50 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3980818] lock: acquired /var/lock/sm/c63f7214-c1ef-4fc3-b174-cb78dffcbaa6/cbtlog
Nov 14 21:06:50 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3980818] ['/usr/sbin/cbt-util', 'get', '-n', '/var/run/sr-mount/16e4ecd2-583e-e2a0-5d3d-8e53ae9c1429/c63f7214-c1ef-4fc3-b174-cb78dffcbaa6.cbtlog', '-c']
Nov 14 21:06:50 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3980818]   pread SUCCESS
Nov 14 21:06:50 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3980818] lock: released /var/lock/sm/c63f7214-c1ef-4fc3-b174-cb78dffcbaa6/cbtlog
Nov 14 21:06:50 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3980818] Raising exception [460, Failed to calculate changed blocks for given VDIs. [opterr=Source and target VDI are unrelated]]
Nov 14 21:06:50 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3980818] ***** generic exception: vdi_list_changed_blocks: EXCEPTION <class 'xs_errors.SROSError'>, Failed to calculate changed blocks for given VDIs. [opterr=Source and target VDI are unrelated]
Nov 14 21:06:50 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3980818]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 111, in run
Nov 14 21:06:50 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3980818]     return self._run_locked(sr)
Nov 14 21:06:50 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3980818]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 161, in _run_locked
Nov 14 21:06:50 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3980818]     rv = self._run(sr, target)
Nov 14 21:06:50 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3980818]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 326, in _run
Nov 14 21:06:50 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3980818]     return target.list_changed_blocks()
Nov 14 21:06:50 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3980818]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/VDI.py", line 757, in list_changed_blocks
Nov 14 21:06:50 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3980818]     "Source and target VDI are unrelated")
Nov 14 21:06:50 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3980818]
Nov 14 21:06:50 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3980818] ***** NFS VHD: EXCEPTION <class 'xs_errors.SROSError'>, Failed to calculate changed blocks for given VDIs. [opterr=Source and target VDI are unrelated]
Nov 14 21:06:50 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3980818]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 385, in run
Nov 14 21:06:50 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3980818]     ret = cmd.run(sr)
Nov 14 21:06:50 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3980818]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 111, in run
Nov 14 21:06:50 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3980818]     return self._run_locked(sr)
Nov 14 21:06:50 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3980818]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 161, in _run_locked
--
Nov 14 21:07:05 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3981883] Size of bitmap: 25165824
Nov 14 21:07:05 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3981883] lock: acquired /var/lock/sm/90202d5b-8016-49a3-92dd-4790a2edaa41/cbtlog
Nov 14 21:07:05 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3981883] ['/usr/sbin/cbt-util', 'get', '-n', '/var/run/sr-mount/16e4ecd2-583e-e2a0-5d3d-8e53ae9c1429/90202d5b-8016-49a3-92dd-4790a2edaa41.cbtlog', '-c']
Nov 14 21:07:05 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3981883]   pread SUCCESS
Nov 14 21:07:05 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3981883] lock: released /var/lock/sm/90202d5b-8016-49a3-92dd-4790a2edaa41/cbtlog
Nov 14 21:07:05 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3981883] Raising exception [460, Failed to calculate changed blocks for given VDIs. [opterr=Source and target VDI are unrelated]]
Nov 14 21:07:05 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3981883] ***** generic exception: vdi_list_changed_blocks: EXCEPTION <class 'xs_errors.SROSError'>, Failed to calculate changed blocks for given VDIs. [opterr=Source and target VDI are unrelated]
Nov 14 21:07:05 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3981883]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 111, in run
Nov 14 21:07:05 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3981883]     return self._run_locked(sr)
Nov 14 21:07:05 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3981883]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 161, in _run_locked
Nov 14 21:07:05 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3981883]     rv = self._run(sr, target)
Nov 14 21:07:05 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3981883]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 326, in _run
Nov 14 21:07:05 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3981883]     return target.list_changed_blocks()
Nov 14 21:07:05 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3981883]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/VDI.py", line 757, in list_changed_blocks
Nov 14 21:07:05 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3981883]     "Source and target VDI are unrelated")
Nov 14 21:07:05 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3981883]
Nov 14 21:07:05 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3981883] ***** NFS VHD: EXCEPTION <class 'xs_errors.SROSError'>, Failed to calculate changed blocks for given VDIs. [opterr=Source and target VDI are unrelated]
Nov 14 21:07:05 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3981883]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 385, in run
Nov 14 21:07:05 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3981883]     ret = cmd.run(sr)
Nov 14 21:07:05 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3981883]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 111, in run
Nov 14 21:07:05 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3981883]     return self._run_locked(sr)
Nov 14 21:07:05 xcpng-prd-03 SM: [3981883]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 161, in _run_locked

          This goes away after the the initial backup run after the VM migration and all runs after result in nothing in the SMLog. Because i am not removing the snapshot the backup still runs as a delta however this leads me to believe if i enabled snapshot delete on that pool i would run into the same issue and a full backup would run instead.

          I'm not sure what i would be doing that's unique to cause this. TestLab is NFS4 on a TrueNAS and Production is NFS3 on a Pure X20 array.

          I will soon be able to test this on our DR site pool but we are currently waiting on hardware for that to arrive.

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          • olivierlambertO Offline
            olivierlambert Vates 🪐 Co-Founder CEO
            last edited by

            I have no idea why you are the only one to have this issue, which is why it's weird 😄

            F 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • F Offline
              flakpyro @olivierlambert
              last edited by flakpyro

              @olivierlambert So today i installed the latest round of updates on the test pool which moved all the VMs back and forth during a rolling pool update. I then let everything sit for a couple hours then ran the backup job and this time it did not throw any errors. So thats even more confusing.

              Perhaps its because i am kicking off a backup job immediately after migrating the VMs? As a test i am going to move them around again now, wait an hour then attempt to run the job.

              Edit: Waiting did not seem to help. Running the job manually again resulted in a full being run again with the same
              Can't do delta with this vdi, transfer will be a full
              Can't do delta, will try to get a full stream

              F 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • F Offline
                flakpyro @flakpyro
                last edited by

                SMLog output on the test pool looks the same as production pool after a manual VM migration:

                I did also double check that the VM UUID does not change after the migration.

                Nov 15 13:59:40 xcpng-test-01 SM: [277865] lock: opening lock file /var/lock/sm/8b0ee29e-7cbe-4e15-bd13-330a974fde2a/cbtlog
Nov 15 13:59:40 xcpng-test-01 SM: [277865] lock: acquired /var/lock/sm/8b0ee29e-7cbe-4e15-bd13-330a974fde2a/cbtlog
Nov 15 13:59:40 xcpng-test-01 SM: [277865] ['/usr/sbin/cbt-util', 'get', '-n', '/var/run/sr-mount/45e457aa-16f8-41e0-d03d-8201e69638be/8b0ee29e-7cbe-4e15-bd13-330a974fde2a.cbtlog', '-c']
Nov 15 13:59:40 xcpng-test-01 SM: [277865]   pread SUCCESS
Nov 15 13:59:40 xcpng-test-01 SM: [277865] lock: released /var/lock/sm/8b0ee29e-7cbe-4e15-bd13-330a974fde2a/cbtlog
Nov 15 13:59:40 xcpng-test-01 SM: [277865] Raising exception [460, Failed to calculate changed blocks for given VDIs. [opterr=Source and target VDI are unrelated]]
Nov 15 13:59:40 xcpng-test-01 SM: [277865] ***** generic exception: vdi_list_changed_blocks: EXCEPTION <class 'xs_errors.SROSError'>, Failed to calculate changed blocks for given VDIs. [opterr=Source and target VDI are unrelated]
Nov 15 13:59:40 xcpng-test-01 SM: [277865]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 111, in run
Nov 15 13:59:40 xcpng-test-01 SM: [277865]     return self._run_locked(sr)
Nov 15 13:59:40 xcpng-test-01 SM: [277865]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 161, in _run_locked
Nov 15 13:59:40 xcpng-test-01 SM: [277865]     rv = self._run(sr, target)
Nov 15 13:59:40 xcpng-test-01 SM: [277865]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 326, in _run
Nov 15 13:59:40 xcpng-test-01 SM: [277865]     return target.list_changed_blocks()
Nov 15 13:59:40 xcpng-test-01 SM: [277865]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/VDI.py", line 757, in list_changed_blocks
Nov 15 13:59:40 xcpng-test-01 SM: [277865]     "Source and target VDI are unrelated")
Nov 15 13:59:40 xcpng-test-01 SM: [277865]
Nov 15 13:59:40 xcpng-test-01 SM: [277865] ***** NFS VHD: EXCEPTION <class 'xs_errors.SROSError'>, Failed to calculate changed blocks for given VDIs. [opterr=Source and target VDI are unrelated]
Nov 15 13:59:40 xcpng-test-01 SM: [277865]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 385, in run
Nov 15 13:59:40 xcpng-test-01 SM: [277865]     ret = cmd.run(sr)
Nov 15 13:59:40 xcpng-test-01 SM: [277865]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 111, in run
Nov 15 13:59:40 xcpng-test-01 SM: [277865]     return self._run_locked(sr)
Nov 15 13:59:40 xcpng-test-01 SM: [277865]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 161, in _run_locked
--
Nov 15 13:59:45 xcpng-test-01 SM: [278274] lock: opening lock file /var/lock/sm/fa7929aa-a39c-437d-9787-5218e9bcbc1a/cbtlog
Nov 15 13:59:45 xcpng-test-01 SM: [278274] lock: acquired /var/lock/sm/fa7929aa-a39c-437d-9787-5218e9bcbc1a/cbtlog
Nov 15 13:59:45 xcpng-test-01 SM: [278274] ['/usr/sbin/cbt-util', 'get', '-n', '/var/run/sr-mount/45e457aa-16f8-41e0-d03d-8201e69638be/fa7929aa-a39c-437d-9787-5218e9bcbc1a.cbtlog', '-c']
Nov 15 13:59:45 xcpng-test-01 SM: [278274]   pread SUCCESS
Nov 15 13:59:45 xcpng-test-01 SM: [278274] lock: released /var/lock/sm/fa7929aa-a39c-437d-9787-5218e9bcbc1a/cbtlog
Nov 15 13:59:45 xcpng-test-01 SM: [278274] Raising exception [460, Failed to calculate changed blocks for given VDIs. [opterr=Source and target VDI are unrelated]]
Nov 15 13:59:45 xcpng-test-01 SM: [278274] ***** generic exception: vdi_list_changed_blocks: EXCEPTION <class 'xs_errors.SROSError'>, Failed to calculate changed blocks for given VDIs. [opterr=Source and target VDI are unrelated]
Nov 15 13:59:45 xcpng-test-01 SM: [278274]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 111, in run
Nov 15 13:59:45 xcpng-test-01 SM: [278274]     return self._run_locked(sr)
Nov 15 13:59:45 xcpng-test-01 SM: [278274]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 161, in _run_locked
Nov 15 13:59:45 xcpng-test-01 SM: [278274]     rv = self._run(sr, target)
Nov 15 13:59:45 xcpng-test-01 SM: [278274]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 326, in _run
Nov 15 13:59:45 xcpng-test-01 SM: [278274]     return target.list_changed_blocks()
Nov 15 13:59:45 xcpng-test-01 SM: [278274]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/VDI.py", line 757, in list_changed_blocks
Nov 15 13:59:45 xcpng-test-01 SM: [278274]     "Source and target VDI are unrelated")
Nov 15 13:59:45 xcpng-test-01 SM: [278274]
Nov 15 13:59:45 xcpng-test-01 SM: [278274] ***** NFS VHD: EXCEPTION <class 'xs_errors.SROSError'>, Failed to calculate changed blocks for given VDIs. [opterr=Source and target VDI are unrelated]
Nov 15 13:59:45 xcpng-test-01 SM: [278274]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 385, in run
Nov 15 13:59:45 xcpng-test-01 SM: [278274]     ret = cmd.run(sr)
Nov 15 13:59:45 xcpng-test-01 SM: [278274]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 111, in run
Nov 15 13:59:45 xcpng-test-01 SM: [278274]     return self._run_locked(sr)
Nov 15 13:59:45 xcpng-test-01 SM: [278274]   File "/opt/xensource/sm/SRCommand.py", line 161, in _run_locked
                F 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • F Offline
                  flakpyro @flakpyro
                  last edited by flakpyro

                  @olivierlambert Im making progress getting to the bottom of this thanks to some documentation from XenServer about using cbt-util.

                  You can use the cbt-util utility, which helps establish chain relationship. If the VDI snapshots are not linked by changed block metadata, you get errors like “SR_BACKEND_FAILURE_460”, “Failed to calculate changed blocks for given VDIs”, and “Source and target VDI are unrelated”.

Example usage of cbt-util:

 cbt-util get –c –n <name of cbt log file>

The -c option prints the child log file UUID.

                  I cleared all CBT snapshots from my test VMs and run a full backup on each VM. Then ensured the CBT chain was consistent using cbt-util, the output was:

                  [14:22 xcpng-test-01 45e457aa-16f8-41e0-d03d-8201e69638be]# cbt-util get -c -n 867063fc-4d86-420a-9ad2-dfe1749ecbc1.cbtlog 
1950d6a3-c6a9-4b0c-b79f-068dd44479cc

                  After the backup was complete i then migrated the VM to the second host in the pool and ran the same command from both hosts:

                  [14:26 xcpng-test-01 45e457aa-16f8-41e0-d03d-8201e69638be]# cbt-util get -c -n 867063fc-4d86-420a-9ad2-dfe1749ecbc1.cbtlog 
00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000

                  And from the second host:

                  [14:26 xcpng-test-02 45e457aa-16f8-41e0-d03d-8201e69638be]# cbt-util get -c -n 867063fc-4d86-420a-9ad2-dfe1749ecbc1.cbtlog 
00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000

                  That clearly is the problem right there, question is, what is causing that to happen?

                  After running another full the zero'd out cbtlog file is removed and a new one is created which will work fine until the VM is migrated again:

                  [14:39 xcpng-test-01 45e457aa-16f8-41e0-d03d-8201e69638be]# cbt-util get -c -n 1eefb7bf-9dc3-4830-8352-441a77412576.cbtlog 
1950d6a3-c6a9-4b0c-b79f-068dd44479cc
                  R 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • R Offline
                    rtjdamen @flakpyro
                    last edited by

                    @flakpyro i can't reproduce this on our end, after migration within pool on the same storage pool the cbt is preserved. When i migrate to a different storage pool the cbt is reset.

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                    • F Offline
                      flakpyro @rtjdamen
                      last edited by

                      @rtjdamen interesting, this is with iSCSI (block) or with an NFS SR?

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                      • R Offline
                        rtjdamen @flakpyro
                        last edited by

                        @flakpyro both scenarios

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                        • F Offline
                          flakpyro @rtjdamen
                          last edited by

                          @rtjdamen Hmm very strange.

                          The only thing i can think of is that this maybe due to the fact these VMs were imported from VMware.

                          Next week i can try creating a brand new NFSv3 SR (Since NFS4 has created issues in the past) as well as a new clean install VM that was not imported from VMware and see if the issue persists.

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                          • F Offline
                            flakpyro @flakpyro
                            last edited by flakpyro

                            This is a completely different 5 host pool backed by a Pure storage array with SRs mounted via NFSv3, migrating a VM between hosts results in the same issue.

                            Before migration:
[01:41 xcpng-prd-03 b04d9910-8671-750f-050e-8b55c64fbede]# cbt-util get -c -n 83035854-b5a9-4f7e-869f-abe43ddc658d.cbtlog 
e28065ff-342f-4eae-a910-b91842dd39ca

After migration
[01:41 xcpng-prd-03 b04d9910-8671-750f-050e-8b55c64fbede]# cbt-util get -c -n 83035854-b5a9-4f7e-869f-abe43ddc658d.cbtlog 
00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000

                            I dont think i have anything "custom" running that would be causing this so no idea why this is happening but its happening on multiple pools for us.

                            R florentF 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • R Offline
                              rtjdamen @flakpyro
                              last edited by

                              @flakpyro is there any difference in migrating with the vm powered on or powered off?

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                              • R Offline
                                rtjdamen @flakpyro
                                last edited by rtjdamen

                                @flakpyro i have just tested live migration and offline on our end, both kept the cbt alive. Tested on both iscsi and nfs.

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                                • F Offline
                                  flakpyro @rtjdamen
                                  last edited by

                                  @rtjdamen

                                  Looks like it does this if the VM is powered off as well. Im really not sure what else to try since this is happening on 2 different pools for us.

                                  I may need to end up submitting a ticket with Vates for them to get to the bottom of it.

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                                  • R Offline
                                    rtjdamen @flakpyro
                                    last edited by

                                    @flakpyro are u running the latest xcp-ng version 8.2 or 8.3?

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                                    • F Offline
                                      flakpyro @rtjdamen
                                      last edited by

                                      @rtjdamen Both pools are on 8.3 with all the latest updates.
                                      I did find this PR on github and wonder if it may be related: https://github.com/vatesfr/xen-orchestra/pull/8127 but not sure why it would only happen after a migration....

                                      fbeauchamp opened this pull request in vatesfr/xen-orchestra

                                      open fix(backups): handle slow enable cbt #8127

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                                      • R Offline
                                        rtjdamen @flakpyro
                                        last edited by

                                        @flakpyro we are still on 8.2 sor maybe there is some difference there.

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                                        • olivierlambertO Offline
                                          olivierlambert Vates 🪐 Co-Founder CEO
                                          last edited by

                                          Thanks for the feedback @flakpyro and it shows it's not an XO issue. There's something not preserving CBT in your case where it shouldn't, and IDK why. But clearly, you have a way to test it easily, which is progress 🙂

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                                          • F Offline
                                            flakpyro @olivierlambert
                                            last edited by

                                            @olivierlambert So i guess the next thing we need to do is have someone also running 8.3 test this using an NFS SR?

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