Great new feature: Restore file from S3 delta backup!

mavoff

@olivierlambert please, I'm not saying you did it on purpose. I NEVER SAID YOU DID IT ON PURPOSE.
You are trying to put words in my mouth, which is extremely insulting. Just like your previous comments of "its an open project, do it yourself" and "we never said we support ARM". I am not being aggressive, while you constantly make inelegant remarks.
But since I don't want to be in such kind of demeaning arguments, I will once more disregard them, as they bring nothing to this discussion.

@julien-f so for now do I have any option to proceed and make XO usable again? thank you.

florent

@julien-f that make sense. I will make a branch to test it

julien-f

@maverick @XaaT, @florent is currently looking into it.

olivierlambert

Please stop or you'll be banned.

@maverick said in Great new feature: Restore file from S3 delta backup!:

I am clearly stating that pushing a feature on an application that worked on any instruction set, only to make it incompatible with a whole family of systems, is a bad approach

Last time I'm explaining this in plain words (as we already did on IRC and here): we do NOT test XO build on Arm, we never did, and we always told that only XOA environment is tested, since XOA exists. So if it breaks on Arm, it's not on purpose, but by accident. You can report when it breaks on master (it happens sometimes) and we can try to see if we can do something. If you start to be passive aggressive or try to troll, you'll be banned. Last warning.

mavoff

@julien-f alright thank you and @florent !
If you guys want someone to test, just throw some instructions I'll let you know.

olivierlambert

@XaaT is trolling Maverick and it's not tolerated neither. He's now temporarily banned (I know him that's why I know he trolled)

julien-f

FYI, this is an open-source project, we are developing it for a specific env, Node LTS on recent Debian for x86, we always try to make it as cross platform as possible but this is not our first priority.

But we welcome reports and contributions to help on this

mavoff

@olivierlambert I understand that, I'm not saying it's on purpose, I'm saying its a bummer messed my whole day and I'm frustrated. I am actually having a very hard time comprehending all the fuss about a remark saying you should have predicted this beforehand. You didn't, it failed, sure. But am I not entitled to my opinion? To express it? Am I insulting you or anyone?
I am simply having a simple and plain conversation with you, even though you keep insisting on trying to insult saying I'm "passive aggressive' and those trolling remarks.

I've talked to you occasionally for years I've never been impolite to you, yet you're all over this calling me a troll and putting words in my mouth, not even considering that you could have taken it easy on your inelegant remarks and put the same in other words, right?

Am I wasting time here accusing you of anything? NO I AM NOT.

I opened a thread, reported the bug, posted a solution and even brought a hint on "ARM free" for any testing.

I don't see any point in continuing this argument even. I can only say such reaction was totally uncalled for. I never trolled in these forums, but if you do believe I have no place here, it's your space.

Have a good day ahead.

olivierlambert

Gosh, this will never end. Words have a meaning, please re-read your sentence I quoted. Your behaviour was not correct, if you are frustrated, we do not have to take it. This is a collaborative project, criticism is fine as long it's constructive. We don't owe you anything if it's broken it happens, we do what we can to fix it (but there's no guarantee, since it's fully free/open). Considering we owe you something while doing all of it for free is truly insulting and I can't bear that kind of behaviour, period.

Let's close the discussion here, since we can't agree. Now this thread is entirely polluted, despite it started by someone happy with our work. This is sad, but as I said, I hope we'll maintain toxicity outside this community as far as possible.

edit: to be clear, the incorrect behaviour started on IRC, so the first answer on the thread was the continuation of it.

olivierlambert

Now 2 options:

Keeping things as is in the thread and move on
Clean the useless conversation while keep working on getting stuff working on Arm

@Andrew as OP and a completely neutral party here (not affiliated to Vates), what's your preference between 1 and 2?

florent

hello, can aybody test the branch fix_fuse_dependancy_arm ?

Also can anyone with an ARM base XO can test file restoration and look into the log for a message like 2022-09-21T14:52:49.714Z xo:backups:RemoteAdapter WARN Can't load fuse-vhd on this platform linux x64 ?
what are the platform and arch ?

Please note, that since it's a fallback to the older system, it won't be able to work with s3 and encrypted backups

mavoff

@olivierlambert
pushing is rushing not making it on purpose. What I mean is the Q&A process is lacking, not that you did it on purpose.
What I said on IRC was on IRC I didn't bring it to the forums, because yes i like it here, and no I don't want to troll or be impolite in the forums. So I expressed mainly my dissatisfaction there, not here.
Anyway, for me this debate is closed and I truly don't see any point in continuing this. As far as I'm concerned, we're good. I'm sorry for the part where I also contributed to derail the topic.

In the meanwhile I have a new question about this issue so I'll be posting on the topic with the report here:
https://xcp-ng.org/forum/topic/6344/libfuse-so-error-adding-symbols-file-in-wrong-format/

@florent I'm quoting your whole answer to that topic and continue from there! Thank you.

olivierlambert

@maverick said in Great new feature: Restore file from S3 delta backup!:

What I mean is the Q&A process is lacking, not that you did it on purpose.

So you missed the main point since we release our first XOA, back in 2014: there's no QA on master. If you want QA-proof Xen Orchestra, it's only possible by using XOA, where we do test things inside a controlled environment (right now our XOA is running on Debian 11 with some packages). That's basically what we sell and what helped to get paid and continue to distribute the code for free for others.

Our great community will tell us when we broke something on master, and we usually fix it pretty fast. If you are frustrated when things explode on master, you can always pay for XOA or revert to a previous commit

Andrew

@olivierlambert I take a nap for hour and things explode!

This discussion is half flame/half a lesson on dealing with bleeding edge code frustration. It might be worth changing the subject to "Unexpected restore feature change" and move on to a new thread with a more official restore announcement that includes reasons for the change/improvement, known ARM issue, and a workaround to use the legacy restore option.

For such a large code change it might have been good to release it as a branch for public testing first, but that may not uncover issues as quickly as a surprise brute force feature improvement.

As for my experience with new features that cause problems, I report them, try to understand what's wrong and why, and help resolve the issue. I have more than one copy of XO and just use a working one that I don't upgrade while the new feature is fixed. VMs are "free" so just add another. It's opensource and the community is the end user, tester, and developer. If you need a stable version of XO then use XOA or don't update to the latest commit. And if you do update, and it fails then revert to a working version.

olivierlambert

To sum up my feeling, I found it very insulting when people using something for free, had behaviour that even paid customer haven't when they had a problem. You have somehow the right to be frustrated against people building a paid service that broke (but you can still be polite). If it's truly free and collaborative, then you have to make an effort to improve the situation and being constructive, because nobody owe you something.

After years of managing XO customers and community, I found a clear relation between how much you pay for a service and the way you treat humans behind that service. Some people are grateful (I would say almost everyone here and that's great!) and some are behaving in a way that making you regret to share all your work entirely for free. Luckily, they are a minority, and that behaviour should be discouraged.

mavoff

@olivierlambert I am sorry if you felt I came on too strong, didn't mean to, neither I think it was all that. But honestly it saddens me that you got all riled up on this cause I do appreciate a lot the work you guys do here, and I've always appreciated you. Have a nice one!

olivierlambert

If I felt that way and we never had issues in the past, it's maybe for a reason. I'm a very patient person (as you can read since years here). So you shouldn't be saddened but more trying to understand something you provoked (it's still not clear that you understand it). I think it's important to know when not to push too far, and you were clearly too far

Next time you are frustrated on an open source software you use for free (likely in production otherwise you wouldn't have been that frustrated), remember that being kind will be more productive in the end. This will be better for everyone.

Also I hope it's more clear for you that using things on master was never meant to be under our internal QA since it's not a controlled environment (but it's documented with big warnings. Maybe I'll make it even more clear in the doc, I don't know, I'm surprised you didn't get it since you are using it since a while. Maybe this misunderstanding explained part of your frustration).