XO and XCP-ng pricing
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I know this has been discussed many times but wanted to again reiterate that for small business the current pricing is MORE than what Broadcom is offering. I currently support some small non profit and originally VMware provided really low prices for non-profits. However we now know that Broadcom in there quest for maximize profit and squeeze every last customer they are no longer have the essentials and essentials plus price points. The cheapest option that is available is the standard version which is way more expensive than what they are currently paying. So we are looking at all of the options, proxmox, xcp-ng etc...currently I think xcp-ng would be a better fit but when looking at the pricing for small business and more notable for non-profits the XO pricing is more expensive. now I understand the new Broadcom is subscription based which is not the same as the old perpetual but still current VMware pricing + non profit Veeam pricing is more expensive.
To be clear I understand that developing software is not free and costs money, but I really think you should have a micro category that covers really small installations. Currently we have 2 esxi servers (essentials) without vmotion etc. We use Veeam to replicate between the nodes and then use Veeam to also back up all of the VM's. Most very small companie do not need HA, they need redundancy but not true HA. I have 2 Dell servers with each server having 6 cores each and this is very typical for very small companies.
I know I have the option to compile XO and go that route without support, but I would prefer to support Vates and XCP-NG but unable to at the current pricing levels. I know for larger businesses its not an issue but there are many of us small companies that are really small but need a lot of the same things but at a much smaller level.
Again really appreciate all the effort, I do not want this to come across in any negative way, wasn't intending it in that way but just wanted to maybe spotlight some of the smaller businesses out here.
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Hi there,
Thanks for the message — and no worries, your tone came across just fine.
Just to clarify a few things: there's no separate “XO pricing” anymore. Everything is now included under the Vates VMS subscription, which starts at $2,000/year for the Essential edition (or $4,000/year for Essential+). That covers up to 3 hosts, includes both XCP-ng and Xen Orchestra, and comes with full support.
To be honest, $2,000/year for a complete virtualization stack with commercial support is already extremely affordable, especially compared to what alternatives when you add the backup within the solution. We’ve done our best to keep it accessible while still being able to fund ongoing development. XCP-ng alone costs us roughly twice as much to maintain as XO.
That said, if you’re working with a nonprofit, I’d really recommend reaching out to our sales team directly. There’s no public discount page, but it’s definitely worth the conversation.
And of course, if a support subscription doesn’t make sense for your situation, the open-source versions remain 100% free to use, no limitations, and we’re genuinely happy when people go that route too.
Thanks again for the thoughtful post and for looking into XCP-ng as an option!
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@olivierlambert said in XO and XCP-ng pricing:
if you’re working with a nonprofit, I’d really recommend reaching out to our sales team directly.
--- K-12 education as well??
Small school districts are getting beat up by Broadcom too. Most small districts would easily fall at or under the 3/4 host limit. -
Please contact sales, I'm not personally handling that
(I am also a human who needs to sleep 
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Understood
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@olivierlambert Appreciate your quick response, again I think most decent size businesses would have no issues with the current pricing its just the micro, small businesses that will. VMware was basically giving it away, my last 3 year renewal for essentials was $106. Again Broadcom now min core count is 16, I have 6 cores per host and only have 2 hosts since they do not have onsite response but essentials was just basic software, no vmotion etc but did come with vcenter to manage both hosts. Used Veeam to replicate across hosts and backup to our backup storage, again Veeam provides a non profit pricing which is very affordable.
I am a long term linux user and have played with all the various virtualization stacks but for at least the small companies I support I try to do things in a straight forward manor so if I get hit by the beer truck anyone can come in a pick up where I have left off. Why I originally went with VMware, it was the big red easy button. Nothing against xen, kvm etc, they all work but at the time they required more leg work to get going. Right now if I want to use the open source path I have to manually compile XO, I know there are plenty of scripts out there that will supposedly do the same thing but where are they going to be in 1 year, 3 years if I need to do the same thing. I have no issue compiling and doing it that way but I can assure you the level of support most small businesses have will be lost if they have to do that. Currently Proxmox has the ability to just download and go but the cluster architecture is not really a good fit for small businesses.
Bottom line, I think xcp-ng is a better fit for small businesses but the current cost of entry (not just referring to $$, but installation etc) is higher. I will reach out to Vates and see if there are any options but I really think they should have a micro category that goes by core count, again I have 6 cores per server, lol.
Again appreciate the response and discussion, just wanting to make folks aware there are many of us really small shops out here that need something also.
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I understand, as you understand we cannot actually lose money on what we do. Remember, we do open source, not like Broadcom, so you can't compare directly. Being at a lower listed price than what we have will simply kill us. It's simple as that.
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@bishoptf said in XO and XCP-ng pricing:
@olivierlambert Appreciate your quick response, again I think most decent size businesses would have no issues with the current pricing its just the micro, small businesses that will. VMware was basically giving it away, my last 3 year renewal for essentials was $106. Again Broadcom now min core count is 16, I have 6 cores per host and only have 2 hosts since they do not have onsite response but essentials was just basic software, no vmotion etc but did come with vcenter to manage both hosts. Used Veeam to replicate across hosts and backup to our backup storage, again Veeam provides a non profit pricing which is very affordable.
So you agree you were only paying for the software (prior to the acquisition).... with XCP-ng you can get the software for free for the entire stack and have the same level of support (from the community) which you had with Essentials from Broadcom.
You're asking for more than what you were getting from Broadcom before, and to essentially be paid to "move".
Insane....
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Well, indeed. If you don't want support I can sell it to you for $1
Or for free, which is already what we do 
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@olivierlambert said in XO and XCP-ng pricing:
I understand, as you understand we cannot actually lose money on what we do. Remember, we do open source, not like Broadcom, so you can't compare directly. Being at a lower listed price than what we have will simply kill us. It's simple as that.
Right and changing the model for micro-customers or non-profits (or MSP's who support Non-Profits) doesn't make sense.
Even a single ticket into the ticket system costs money, money to look at, money to review any logs, money to staff, I think everyone pretty much understands that.
What doesn't make sense to me is that @bishoptf wants to pay for some level of support, that is lower than what they were paying broadcom for just software without any support for software that is completely opensource, when it appears that they are running a Managed Services Provider organization.
And not for nothing, but Non-Profits in the US get some very solid funding every year, they have money, $1000 a year is nothing. I've seen a Food bank sign on the dotted line for almost $50,000 without even looking at it for a Wireless upgrade for their offices.
They latter ended up spending even more to expand the network the same year.
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@DustinB said in XO and XCP-ng pricing:
@bishoptf said in XO and XCP-ng pricing:
@olivierlambert Appreciate your quick response, again I think most decent size businesses would have no issues with the current pricing its just the micro, small businesses that will. VMware was basically giving it away, my last 3 year renewal for essentials was $106. Again Broadcom now min core count is 16, I have 6 cores per host and only have 2 hosts since they do not have onsite response but essentials was just basic software, no vmotion etc but did come with vcenter to manage both hosts. Used Veeam to replicate across hosts and backup to our backup storage, again Veeam provides a non profit pricing which is very affordable.
So you agree you were only paying for the software (prior to the acquisition).... with XCP-ng you can get the software for free for the entire stack and have the same level of support (from the community) which you had with Essentials from Broadcom.
You're asking for more than what you were getting from Broadcom before, and to essentially be paid to "move".
Insane....
Not exactly I am just trying to note that there are small companies that need something equvalent, they cannot and will not pay for it at the current pricing. I am not asking for anything more then what we currently have, I would gladly roll with community support but the current compile only option for most small businesses will be a no go, thats just the way it is. Using one of the scripts that are out there is not official is not the way to go either.
There are many, many small businesses that was using essentials without Vmotion and had a single pane of glass to manage. Currently there are no real good solutions that provide that same level at the same cost. I for one would like to support whoever I end up going with but unable to do it at current levels.
Currently I believe I still have some sanity left, lol. It's all good, I was just trying to show there are many of us out here that were running essentials and the current Broadcom pricing for standard is actually lower.....although a subscription vs perpetual etc...again appreciate having options and all the work, the problem is not us small guys its the greedy larger companies that CAN afford it but have an IT staff that can do it and not PAY for support...thats the real problem....
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@bishoptf said in XO and XCP-ng pricing:
Not exactly I am just trying to note that there are small companies that need something equvalent,
You're conflating paying for the right to use the software (VMWare Essentials) with OpenSource and completely free to use.
Do you ask your employees to work for free, endlessly, of course not.
Just use the opensource software and the community forums here for support, since that is clearly the bulk of what you're really needing.
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@bishoptf said in XO and XCP-ng pricing:
Currently there are no real good solutions that provide that same level at the same cost.
You're right, XCP-ng and Xen orchestra from Source or XOCE (see my profile) are cheaper!
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@bishoptf if you really want, I'll invoice you annually for $150/year to support you, personally.
It'll be me telling you to read the docs or searching the forums.
Sounds like a great deal, I'll even provide you a link to the docs.
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@DustinB said in XO and XCP-ng pricing:
@bishoptf if you really want, I'll invoice you annually for $150/year to support you, personally.
It'll be me telling you to read the docs or searching the forums.
Sounds like a great deal, I'll even provide you a link to the docs.
Wow, thats not really helping the conversation, not sure what point your trying to prove. I was just trying to point out that for us very small businesses that current Broadcom standard pricing is cheaper. I have no issue compiling and installing and can rtfm etc but the person following me might not have the same level. I've been doing this stuff for years, most of the green support folks would be totally lost. They want to install an ISO and click a few buttons etc.
Will just leave it here since it appears you are taking what I am saying the wrong way and that was not my intent which was at that the current pricing from Broadcom for VMware standard with less than 16 cores is cheaper....I know about the community and open source but I would prefer to support Vates etc....
You can now continue to throw insults...which was never my intent to begin with, peace.
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@bishoptf said in XO and XCP-ng pricing:
Wow, thats not really helping the conversation, not sure what point your trying to prove. I was just trying to point out that for us very small businesses that current Broadcom standard pricing is cheaper
It isn't cheaper, nothing can be cheaper than free. You're paying Broadcom for the right to use the software, without any assurance or support from the vendor directly.
With XCP-ng, ProxMox or just straight KVM, you get the software for free, and still have access to a community to ask for help.
You're confused about what you're paying Broadcom for and are expecting the same rules to apply here when they don't.
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Another way to look at this is Vates is saying that they simply won't sell you access to support for less than X dollars year (support, not the software the software is free).
You're saying that you only want to pay less than X dollars per year, and Vates is telling you that it isn't worth the business risk to sell to customers who are so small and is recommending you use the opensource software and community support for free.
If your customers told you that they wanted to pay you only a 10th per year what you're charging them now, would you accept that, or would you recommend that they find an alternative answer?
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@bishoptf Something else to consider is the quality of support you get for what you pay. It's possible, not always possible, but possible, even likely, that you can download and use XCP-ng for free, build XO from source, giving you that for free, and still get better support here in the forums than the paid support you get from VMware (or from Citrix for XenServer for that matter).
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@JeffBerntsen said in XO and XCP-ng pricing:
@bishoptf Something else to consider is the quality of support you get for what you pay. It's possible, not always possible, but possible, even likely, that you can download and use XCP-ng for free, build XO from source, giving you that for free, and still get better support here in the forums than the paid support you get from VMware (or from Citrix for XenServer for that matter).
Exactly, and on the flip side of that, there is nothing in the lowest tiers of support agreements from Broadcom that offers anything remotely close to an SLA or assurance, they may offer you the bare minimum of saying, "Thumbs up from us" and then tell you to upgrade to the latest version of the software.
