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    S3 Backup "Please Match The Requested Format"

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Xen Orchestra
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    • V Offline
      vincentp @planedrop
      last edited by

      @planedrop TBH I didn't monitor for the full 24hrs - but the transfer speeds were just too slow. The same happens with CR between hosts - way too slow to be usable.

      Backup performance on xcp/xo is a major problem - currently battling with this at another site where we just installed a truenas server with dual 25G direct connections between the xcp host and the truenas server (with NDB - and we see < 100MiB/s transfers (nfs share on truenas scale latest) - this time the xcp host is a dual eypc 7543 with all nvme and tons of ram.

      This thread did help a bit - top on the host was showing stunnel using a lot of cpu - switching the connection from xo to the server tp be http removed stunnel from the equation but it's still too slow - and I did read somewhere that in the next xcp/xen version http is going away and everything will be https only.

      I'm currently researching backups on proxmox to see if they have the same sort of performance issues. I really like xcp and xo but when we end up with backups taking so long that they overlap with the next backup schedule that is not usable.

      planedropP 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • planedropP Offline
        planedrop Top contributor @vincentp
        last edited by

        @vincentp I do agree backups being as slow as they are, especially for S3, is a huge issue.

        I don't personally find backups over SMB (10GbE in this case) too slow to be usable by any means, many TB of VMs can be backed up in a single night without issues, but remote stuff is very slow.

        I'm curious to hear about your CR experience though, as that is something I'm planning to deploy here soon. Where the hosts on the same subnet and had fast connections or was it a remote host with like IPSec handling the connectivity?

        V 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • V Offline
          vincentp @planedrop
          last edited by vincentp

          @planedrop I haven't used smb for backups but will test that - currently testing with nfs which I imagine would be faster than smb though.

          I have 3 sites, each with a separate XO instance managing them

          LA DC

          • 2 xcp hosts (dual E5-2620v4)
          • no shared storage
          • 10G direct connection between hosts

          I tried CR between the hosts, and it works well.. once you get past the full backup - but those take 24hrs (800GB vms),
          S3 Backup - same experience - backups seem to work well once you get past the full backup - but that sometimes takes longer than 24hrs and runs into the next backup schedule. XO has access to the 10G interface and I confirmed it's using that.

          Sydney DC

          • single xcp host (dual eypc)
          • truenas scale (installed yesterday) - dual 25G direct connections to the xcp

          Testing full backups to nfs on truenas over 25G network(NDB Enabled) with the shared option to use multiple files enabled. Also XO is connecting via http to avoid stunnel which was using a huge amount of cpu when I first tried it, and it has access to a 25G interface and I confirmed via netdata that the correct interface is being used for the backups

          Small vm test.
          Duration: 9 minutes
          Size: 41.48 GiB
          Speed: 81.03 MiB/s

          More testing required but its frustrating that we cannot get better speeds than this - could have saved some money and just used 1G cards in the machines!

          HomeLab

          • single xcp host
          • truenas server to be commissioned this week

          just doing disaster recovery backups to 2nd local storage on the machine for now (and just as slow) - will use the truenas once I get it in the rack this week.

          The bottleneck with the backups is definitely not the network, even on the homelab machine that backs up to local storage I'm only seeing around 60MiB/s

          florentF 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • florentF Offline
            florent Vates 🪐 XO Team @vincentp
            last edited by florent

            @vincentp If you backup multiple VMs in parallel, does the total speed stays at 80MB/s or does it scales with the number of VM ?

            NBD also use encryption by default. You can use it unencrypted by removing the NBD purpose on the network and adding insecure_nbd https://docs.citrix.com/en-us/citrix-hypervisor/developer/changed-block-tracking-guide/enabling-nbd.html#enabling-an-insecure-nbd-connection-for-a-network-notls-mode

            V 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • olivierlambertO Offline
              olivierlambert Vates 🪐 Co-Founder CEO
              last edited by olivierlambert

              80MiB/s between LA and Sydney is already pretty impressive, knowing the latency between those. When you write a lot of small blocks, each block have to way for a round trip before being ACK. This takes a lot of time.

              Higher the latency, longer the backup, except if we choose bigger blocks, which isn't trivial.

              When using NBD, it should be a lot better however since we can have more blocks worked in parallel. I achieved a huge bump with more blocks at the same time.

              Also, you can also try XO from the source on a physical machine to check the difference 🙂 (vs XO in a VM)

              There's many many many ways to get faster, what's important is to measure each modification boost, because this might help to identify bottlenecks 🙂

              V 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • V Offline
                vincentp @olivierlambert
                last edited by

                @olivierlambert said in S3 Backup "Please Match The Requested Format":

                80MiB/s between LA and Sydney is already pretty impressive

                No, that's local to sydney - no backups occuring between sites.

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • olivierlambertO Offline
                  olivierlambert Vates 🪐 Co-Founder CEO
                  last edited by

                  Do you have NBD enabled on the network used by XO to backup?

                  V 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • V Offline
                    vincentp @olivierlambert
                    last edited by

                    @olivierlambert said in S3 Backup "Please Match The Requested Format":

                    Do you have NBD enabled on the network used by XO to backup?

                    yes.

                    I will try the insecure nbd - ok without encryption since its a direct connection between the machines

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • olivierlambertO Offline
                      olivierlambert Vates 🪐 Co-Founder CEO
                      last edited by

                      @florent is there a way to easily raise the blocks in parallel to see the impact for @vincentp ?

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • V Offline
                        vincentp @florent
                        last edited by

                        @florent said in S3 Backup "Please Match The Requested Format":

                        @vincentp If you backup multiple VMs in parallel, does the total speed stays at 80MB/s or does it scales with the number of VM ?

                        Yes it does.

                        NBD also use encryption by default. You can use it unencrypted by removing the NBD purpose on the network and adding insecure_nbd https://docs.citrix.com/en-us/citrix-hypervisor/developer/changed-block-tracking-guide/enabling-nbd.html#enabling-an-insecure-nbd-connection-for-a-network-notls-mode

                        I ran 2 full backups together - netdata and truenas are showed 1.45Gb/s so that's definitely an improvement - although it's using a lot of cpu

                          PID USER      PR  NI    VIRT    RES    SHR S  %CPU %MEM     TIME+ COMMAND
                        23882 root      20   0 1022156 101484  20560 S 105.0  1.3  18:08.94 xapi
                        25349 root      20   0   31884   3872   2660 R  66.0  0.0   0:25.54 tapdisk
                        10163 root      20   0   32696   4896   2900 R  28.7  0.1   2:25.91 tapdisk
                        

                        VM1
                        Duration: 10 minutes
                        Size: 41.51 GiB
                        Speed: 67.6 MiB/s

                        VM2
                        Duration: 10 minutes
                        Size: 23.25 GiB
                        Speed: 39.13 MiB/s

                        Some other backups are running at the moment, when they are done I will measure VM1 by itself to compare to the earlier one I posted.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • V Offline
                          vincentp @florent
                          last edited by

                          @florent said in S3 Backup "Please Match The Requested Format":

                          NBD also use encryption by default. You can use it unencrypted by removing the NBD purpose on the network and adding insecure_nbd https://docs.citrix.com/en-us/citrix-hypervisor/developer/changed-block-tracking-guide/enabling-nbd.html#enabling-an-insecure-nbd-connection-for-a-network-notls-mode

                          Duration: 9 minutes
                          Size: 41.52 GiB
                          Speed: 75.26 MiB/s

                          So didn't really make any meaningful difference (was 80MiB/s previously).

                          florentF 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • florentF Offline
                            florent Vates 🪐 XO Team @vincentp
                            last edited by florent

                            @vincentp
                            if you are on master, can you apply the setting from here : https://xcp-ng.org/forum/topic/7209/slow-backups-updated-xo-source-issue/8 ?

                            V 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • V Offline
                              vincentp @florent
                              last edited by

                              @florent I already had that setting applied, at least I think so
                              Is this the correct config file?

                              /opt/xo/xo-server/config.toml

                              V 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • V Offline
                                vincentp @vincentp
                                last edited by

                                Assuming I have the setting in the correct place, I'm not seeing any significant difference whether the setting is there or not.

                                without setting
                                Duration: 10 minutes
                                Size: 41.71 GiB
                                Speed: 72.5 MiB/s

                                with setting
                                Duration: 10 minutes
                                Size: 41.71 GiB
                                Speed: 72.87 MiB/s

                                CPU usage appears to be about the same.

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