@DustinB Been using it since 2012, non-profits fell under the academic tier and it was originally by number of cpu which was 2 cpu per host, under 192G ram but again didnt include vmotion etc, just plain ole esxi why I used Veeam since it brought replication into the mix again still using them at a very low cost. They had essentials and essentials plus and the academic pricing was very low, my understanding is they would rather you use VMware vs something else. Again I have receipts going back to 2012, pretty much same price for all these years until Broadcom entered the picture. There was nothing sus about it, you had to verify your non-profit category and fit within the limts, it was pretty standard pricing for a low number of cores, I could go to CDW or any reseller and get the same pricing. Why you have so many small companies jumping ship many were using vmware essentials which was WAY cheaper then what they are doing now which the only option is Standard and it now requires min of 16 cores per host @$50/core. That is the new and wonderful world of Broadcom...

Anyway, this was pretty common stuff under VMware, why so many folks were using it, even the small shops.

@DustinB Running latest version 8....they did things way differently, it was by # of cores and I my licenses were for 3 hosts of 6 cores or less...

Is what it is but it was very cheap and direct from VMware. Essentials did not include vmotion etc, it was a lot more expensive this was just the basic software for three nodes and Vcenter.

Is what it is now....

@DustinB Nope that was a fully supported license including support...I could open tickets and maybe the response would have been slow but it was a fully supported instance.

@DustinB I fully well understand how veeam works, I would prefer not to have to load the agents in every vm...I understand what my options are, just looking for what makes the most sense moving forward for the long term.

@flakpyro said in XO and XCP-ng pricing:

Vmware Education pricing back before Broadcom was insanely good. We are getting an Edu discount from Vates as well but its still more expensive than pre Broadcom VMware was. At the same time it's much cheaper than Broadcom owned VMware

Yup for essentials my pricing was like $45/year, lol. Veeam also has really good non profit pricing, even Microsoft does now. Broadcom has decided to just go for as much money as it can, really dumb move inmho but seems to be there charter in life...I really think xcp-ng would be a good fit especially if Veeam starts to officially support it. Still kind of having to wait on that also, but I will reach out to Vates and see what they say.

@JeffBerntsen said in XO and XCP-ng pricing:

@bishoptf Something else to consider is the quality of support you get for what you pay. It's possible, not always possible, but possible, even likely, that you can download and use XCP-ng for free, build XO from source, giving you that for free, and still get better support here in the forums than the paid support you get from VMware (or from Citrix for XenServer for that matter).

I get it but I have to think of those that follow me, right now the folks I support they are spoiled since I provide support for them at a reduced rate, think cheap, since they are a non profit. But while I could compile from source it's not a easy path for a lot of folks, mainly the folks that will probably be supporting them in the future. I try to keep things simple and compiling from source for many non linux folks is not simple. Documentation is good but still assumes the user to know what they are doing.

Again appreciate the conversation and will continue to evaluate all the options.

@DustinB said in XO and XCP-ng pricing:

@bishoptf if you really want, I'll invoice you annually for $150/year to support you, personally.

It'll be me telling you to read the docs or searching the forums.

Sounds like a great deal, I'll even provide you a link to the docs.

Wow, thats not really helping the conversation, not sure what point your trying to prove. I was just trying to point out that for us very small businesses that current Broadcom standard pricing is cheaper. I have no issue compiling and installing and can rtfm etc but the person following me might not have the same level. I've been doing this stuff for years, most of the green support folks would be totally lost. They want to install an ISO and click a few buttons etc.

Will just leave it here since it appears you are taking what I am saying the wrong way and that was not my intent which was at that the current pricing from Broadcom for VMware standard with less than 16 cores is cheaper....I know about the community and open source but I would prefer to support Vates etc....

You can now continue to throw insults...which was never my intent to begin with, peace.

@DustinB said in XO and XCP-ng pricing:

@bishoptf said in XO and XCP-ng pricing:

@olivierlambert Appreciate your quick response, again I think most decent size businesses would have no issues with the current pricing its just the micro, small businesses that will. VMware was basically giving it away, my last 3 year renewal for essentials was $106. Again Broadcom now min core count is 16, I have 6 cores per host and only have 2 hosts since they do not have onsite response but essentials was just basic software, no vmotion etc but did come with vcenter to manage both hosts. Used Veeam to replicate across hosts and backup to our backup storage, again Veeam provides a non profit pricing which is very affordable.

So you agree you were only paying for the software (prior to the acquisition).... with XCP-ng you can get the software for free for the entire stack and have the same level of support (from the community) which you had with Essentials from Broadcom.

You're asking for more than what you were getting from Broadcom before, and to essentially be paid to "move".

Insane....

Not exactly I am just trying to note that there are small companies that need something equvalent, they cannot and will not pay for it at the current pricing. I am not asking for anything more then what we currently have, I would gladly roll with community support but the current compile only option for most small businesses will be a no go, thats just the way it is. Using one of the scripts that are out there is not official is not the way to go either.

There are many, many small businesses that was using essentials without Vmotion and had a single pane of glass to manage. Currently there are no real good solutions that provide that same level at the same cost. I for one would like to support whoever I end up going with but unable to do it at current levels.

Currently I believe I still have some sanity left, lol. It's all good, I was just trying to show there are many of us out here that were running essentials and the current Broadcom pricing for standard is actually lower.....although a subscription vs perpetual etc...again appreciate having options and all the work, the problem is not us small guys its the greedy larger companies that CAN afford it but have an IT staff that can do it and not PAY for support...thats the real problem....

@olivierlambert Appreciate your quick response, again I think most decent size businesses would have no issues with the current pricing its just the micro, small businesses that will. VMware was basically giving it away, my last 3 year renewal for essentials was $106. Again Broadcom now min core count is 16, I have 6 cores per host and only have 2 hosts since they do not have onsite response but essentials was just basic software, no vmotion etc but did come with vcenter to manage both hosts. Used Veeam to replicate across hosts and backup to our backup storage, again Veeam provides a non profit pricing which is very affordable.

I am a long term linux user and have played with all the various virtualization stacks but for at least the small companies I support I try to do things in a straight forward manor so if I get hit by the beer truck anyone can come in a pick up where I have left off. Why I originally went with VMware, it was the big red easy button. Nothing against xen, kvm etc, they all work but at the time they required more leg work to get going. Right now if I want to use the open source path I have to manually compile XO, I know there are plenty of scripts out there that will supposedly do the same thing but where are they going to be in 1 year, 3 years if I need to do the same thing. I have no issue compiling and doing it that way but I can assure you the level of support most small businesses have will be lost if they have to do that. Currently Proxmox has the ability to just download and go but the cluster architecture is not really a good fit for small businesses.

Bottom line, I think xcp-ng is a better fit for small businesses but the current cost of entry (not just referring to $$, but installation etc) is higher. I will reach out to Vates and see if there are any options but I really think they should have a micro category that goes by core count, again I have 6 cores per server, lol.

Again appreciate the response and discussion, just wanting to make folks aware there are many of us really small shops out here that need something also.

I know this has been discussed many times but wanted to again reiterate that for small business the current pricing is MORE than what Broadcom is offering. I currently support some small non profit and originally VMware provided really low prices for non-profits. However we now know that Broadcom in there quest for maximize profit and squeeze every last customer they are no longer have the essentials and essentials plus price points. The cheapest option that is available is the standard version which is way more expensive than what they are currently paying. So we are looking at all of the options, proxmox, xcp-ng etc...currently I think xcp-ng would be a better fit but when looking at the pricing for small business and more notable for non-profits the XO pricing is more expensive. now I understand the new Broadcom is subscription based which is not the same as the old perpetual but still current VMware pricing + non profit Veeam pricing is more expensive.

To be clear I understand that developing software is not free and costs money, but I really think you should have a micro category that covers really small installations. Currently we have 2 esxi servers (essentials) without vmotion etc. We use Veeam to replicate between the nodes and then use Veeam to also back up all of the VM's. Most very small companie do not need HA, they need redundancy but not true HA. I have 2 Dell servers with each server having 6 cores each and this is very typical for very small companies.

I know I have the option to compile XO and go that route without support, but I would prefer to support Vates and XCP-NG but unable to at the current pricing levels. I know for larger businesses its not an issue but there are many of us small companies that are really small but need a lot of the same things but at a much smaller level.

Again really appreciate all the effort, I do not want this to come across in any negative way, wasn't intending it in that way but just wanted to maybe spotlight some of the smaller businesses out here.